It suggests that this turtle rests on the back of an even larger turtle, which itself is part of a column of increasingly large world turtles that continues indefinitely (i.e., "turtles all the way down"). At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. Why do you think this choice was made? “Like the old woman in the story who described the world as resting on a rock, and then explained that rock to be supported by another rock, and finally when pushed with questions said it was “rocks all the way down,” he who believes this to be a radically moral universe must hold the moral order to rest either on an absolute and ultimate should or on a series of shoulds “all the way down.” — William James, “Rationality, Activity and Faith”. They're all very well read, and the novel is filled with allusions and references to a number of classic novels, like F. Scott Fitzgerald’s Tender is the Night and Shakespeare’s The Tempest.The characters are also interested in the mechanics of language itself. “In our favored version, an Eastern guru affirms that the earth is supported on the back of a tiger. Let us remember the story of the Indian philosopher and his elephant. ", Justice Antonin Scalia of the U.S. Supreme Court discussed his "favored version" of the saying in a footnote to his plurality opinion in Rapanos v. United States:[16], In our favored version, an Eastern guru affirms that the earth is supported on the back of a tiger. John Green released his book with the same title in 2017. When asked, finally, what supports the giant turtle, he is briefly taken aback, but quickly replies "Ah, after that it is turtles all the way down. ", "Lud! [17], An expression of the problem of infinite regress, This article is about the saying in cosmology. And the saying was in our mouths and minds again. We're doing our best to make sure our content is useful, accurate and safe.If by any chance you spot an inappropriate comment while navigating through our website please use this form to let us know, and we'll take care of it shortly. https://www.abbreviations.com/TURTLES%20ALL%20THE%20WAY%20DOWN. In the form of "rocks all the way down", the saying dates to at least 1838, when it was printed in an unsigned anecdote in the New-York Mirror about a schoolboy and an old woman living in the woods: "The world, marm," said I, anxious to display my acquired knowledge, "is not exactly round, but resembles in shape a flattened orange; and it turns on its axis once in twenty-four hours. "TPL • Excerpts from H.D. How can we satisfy ourselves without going on in infinitum? "But what does this second turtle stand on?" The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." 'But it's turtles all the way down.'. Mus. Bulletin of the School of Oriental Studies, University of London 3(2) (1924), pp. The expression has been used to illustrate problems such as the regress argument in epistemology. It's unclear where the expression first came from, as versions of it have appeared since the mid 19th century — but one example was recorded in Stephen Hawking's book A Brief History of Time, which begins: John Green himself has written on his website that he is a Christian — though he also says that he doesn't agree with every part of Christianity. What do we mean when we say it’s “Turtles All the Way Down”? "It's no use, Professor", said the old lady, realizing he was trying to lead her into a logical trap. It was never more applicable than to the present subject. This all reminds me of the Iroquois origin myth: [https://www.khanacademy.org/partner-content/big-history-project/what-is-big-history/origin-stories/a/origin-story-iroquois]. But at last she came to the surface and before dying managed to spit out a mouthful of dirt on the back of the Great Turtle. The first known reference to a Hindu source is found in a letter by Jesuit Emanuel da Veiga (1549–1605), written at Chandagiri on 18 September 1599, in which the relevant passage reads: Alii dicebant terram novem constare angulis, quibus cœlo innititur. Content. "Turtles all the way down" is a humorous expression of the problem of infinite regress. First Otter, then Muskrat, and then Beaver dived. Alius ab his dissentiens volebat terram septem elephantis fulciri, elephantes uero ne subsiderent, super testudine pedes fixos habere. Here is one of the best known: “William James, father of American psychology, tells of meeting an old lady who told him the Earth rested on the back of a huge turtle. It suggests that this turtle rests on the back of an even larger turtle, which itself is part of a column of increasingly large world turtles that continues indefinitely (i.e., "turtles all the way down"). [13] Turtles All the Way Down is also the title of a 2017 novel by John Green about a teenage girl with obsessive–compulsive disorder. The phrase has been commonly known since at least the early 20th century. The song Turtles All the Way Down by Sturgill Simpson featured on Sunday night's episode of Yellowstone Season 3. 3. Those beasts, in turn stand on the back of another beast. I've got a better theory," said the little old lady. The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" Detailed explanations, analysis, and citation info for every important quote on LitCharts. How does this statement influence your perception of this story? (Vehement and vociferous applause.). On Thursday, YA fans were greeted with the super-exciting news that a new John Green novel is coming out in October. TURO, TURP, TURP(S), TÜRSAB, TURTLE, TUS, TUSA, TUSB, TUSC, TUSCHE. Then Sturgill Simpson released his song “Turtles All the Way Down” in 2014. For each quote, you can also see the other characters and themes related to it (each theme is indicated by its own dot and icon, like this one: ). He is standing on the back of another turtle." Login She was under so long that the others thought she had been lost. inquired James politely. 317-342, citing John Hay. When asked what supports the tiger, he says it stands upon an elephant; and when asked what supports the elephant he says it is a giant turtle.

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